Communities Idea
Posted by Jesse Andrews on Dec 29, 2007
Communities are what happens when tags grow up ;) Here is the current idea and some questions.
First, the "news" section of the site is now the "userscripts blog", and technorati is making me register it as a blog by doing this: Technorati Profile.
Ok, now that is out of the way, lets talk about Communities, with a capital C.
First, what do we hope to accomplish with communities?
I think the site is divided into two groups, developers and users. Right now there are ways to comment on individual scripts, and to have discussions in a global forum. This micro and macro discussions miss the sweet spot, which I think is discussions between users and authors of scripts in a general area.
I hope to add areas where communities can talk about how they are using scripts, ideas for scripts, and also developers talking shop about developing script.
To that end, a community is centered around a tag. This means the community might be about a specific site (twitter, gmail, facebook, ...), or around a general area (video, ads, books), or even a group of people who decide to use the same tag.
When viewing a tag page, logged in users will be able to click "create a community around this" which will allow them to fill in a description about the community. The community is then created, with two forums (users and developers), scripts list, and membership list. Anyone can join the group (all groups are going to be public at first, if we need to create private groups we can cross that bridge when we get there), and anyone can add their scripts to the group by tagging it with the communities' tag (all scripts tagged with the communities tag in the script list)
The description will be a wiki, where members can edit it (with history being maintained).
The major open questions to be determined before it is released that I have are:
1) how does a community add scripts that others wrote, since only the authors can currently tag scripts?
2) how does a community rank scripts? (so they can highlight the useful ones)
3) this is related to #2, but how can a community remove scripts they don't want that are tagged with their name?
I want to build these so the community members are in control, as the last thing I want is to moderate and judge hundreds of communities!
What questions / ideas do you have?
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Summarizing, by connecting a tag with a community a lot of things become easy, but the edge cases - when a script belongs in a community but hasn't been tagged, when a script has been tagged but shouldn't be in the community, and rankings need to be worked out. With respect to rankings, scripts that one community finds useful might not be useful for general people or another community. But does that mean voting is isolated and only affects it's placement that community? Is there an "overall" and community scores. Perhaps scripts can be marked controversial if they have high scores in some/a community and low other places? |
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For #1, perhaps users with a certain number of scripts in a community (say, 1) could vote other scripts in when someone nominates them for inclusion. There could be a poll on the community page. This could go the other way around for #3. |
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It made more sense to me when it said "News", I tend to ignore blogs, but, whatever. |
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I hate to say this, because the idea is sound, but without moderation you're going to end up with thousands of communities with no organization at all. We already have many people asking for scripts that already exist, that don't search or don't find what they're looking for or comment in the wrong place or duplicate something that already exists or simply don't read instructions. You'll probably going to need a way to join communities and delete communities, and who is going to do this? You could, on the other hand, create a communities thread in the forum and add the ability to link scripts to a community thread there. Creating isolated forums seems awkward and counter-productive to me. Dis-jointed. |
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Why not have categories? I know the category idea is very "late 90's", but it would at least let people have a good idea what already exists, and we can just have a few people in charge of creating new categories (or even subcategories) where things can exist. And all of this without having to remove the tags that currently exist. Might help to make some "social" settings for scripts, let each person vote which category the script should go in. Here is a very rough example of some categories:
I wonder how much of this information could be gleaned from the GM scripts themselves? On a site note: where the hell is the tag cloud? I thought I would see that long ago, but it never materialized, whats going on? |
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Time proves you should keep it simple. Communities should be as few as they need to. In that sense it might make sense to organize the scripts only by site (Google, YouTube, etc.), and have them be taggable with Purpose Tags (interface change, new feature, misc) and Source Tags (Script.aculo.us, jQuery, XMLHttpRequest, etc.). This would put the script into subcategories, much like Gmail's mails are categorisable by location (Inbox, Spam, Trash) and then by tags (whatever tags you assign to them) making it all very organised. This is better than having sub-categories because some scripts do many stuffs and belong in many categories. As for the ratings, Digg.com's rating would be useful here. Also the comments style rating should be usable in the comments here (it's not hard to implement). The ratings for a script might be something like: * This is a god script!
Only logged in users can rate it. And the rating should be weighed (like on imdb.com), older users with many good scripts have more to say in their votes (If you do decide to implement this the algorithm would look something like Google's PageRank algorithm). PS: this is what this part of the alphabet would look like if the letters Q and R were missing.
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I like the design of userscripts.org (not the home page though), but I kinda like the way http://userstyles.org/ is organized, and also note the way they point out Stylish.
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Another thought, might this be a place where we can share Application Scripts: http://kb.mozillazine.org/UserChrome.js
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Finally, I hope Jesse already saw this post, it is nearly the same as what manixrock just said, but I like manixrock's script rating description. |
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Communities are what happens when tags grow up No. Just...no. As a casual user of this site, I have to tell you this sounds like a bad idea. This site already has forums, and a spam problem, and an interface that needs work. Who's going to be the mods for all these new communities? Who's going to deal with the trolls and the spam and the inevitable stupid flamewars? You? Random volunteers? Frankly, I'd much rather have categories and ratings systems like verifex and manixrock suggested. And maybe a tags cloud. And email notifications when one of my favorite scripts is updated, but I'm not holding my breath for that last one. |
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This is pretty out of context, but i guess it does have to do with upgrades and changes, one feature I'd LOVE to see, is rating, but even more than that, I've switched to greasekit for safari as i was kinda getting sick of slow bloated firefox except when I'm developing, I'd love to see some way to say "works with greasekit" or something if possible. |
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I agree with trish. I think other things ought to be addressed way before this communities idea: it seems premature. Better categorisation is essential and if anything, the ability to sort search results by number of installs should be a priority. While the number of installs is a sort of rating in itself (perhaps number of comments too) but a rating system would be very nice. Developers discussing scripts is fine as it is in the forum, IMHO, and there is not that much discussion in there to warrant something bigger and more complex. Upon addition of a script to the site, a user could be prompted to categorise a script (from a list of categories). If miscategorised, users could flag it until it is put in the right place. The front page of course still needs lots of work, but it's great to see improvements being made and thought about. |
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Great feedback. I'm not deploying fundamental changes like this yet because I want your feedback :) A few responses: trish: "And email notifications when one of my favorite scripts is updated, but I'm not holding my breath" there is an rss feed for updates, but I'm hesitant to add email since it is hard work to stay out of "spam" category if I start sending lots of emails. Raffles: "Better categorisation is essential and if anything, the ability to sort search results by number of installs should be a priority" You can click on the word "installs" in any script listing and it will sort via install count (also name, comments, updated date) ----- I think voting for comments and scripts is important and I will post an article about my questions about my concerns with voting on scripts. |
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"You can click on the word "installs" in any script listing and it will sort via install count (also name, comments, updated date)" Whoops. :) How long has that been there? Incidentally, there are a few scripts with very artificially install numbers (such as the top 2). |
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I think you should keep the tags like they are with a slight modification. Don't do categories because it's annoying when things should be in more than one.
I think the tags should be pre-defined but then if you can't find the tag you want you can just hit "other" and type in a tag.
That way the tags become tied throughout all the scripts instead of having like
Then users either use the current search or a new "Tag Search" which you can use to search in just tags for scripts that fit all or any of the tags you specify.
The first search would find all that the second would find and ofc the second would be limited to scripts that have both those tags. Kane |
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Oh, and the user could select "match any tag" which would mean that if they searched for "myspace layout" they'd find any script with either or both tags. |
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I am interested in partenering with you on this. It just so turns out that I have a site that I just put up and am in alpha stages - reliablesource.org ---long story short, its kinda like wikipedia meets digg on free software (as in beer). I am thinking something like a digg'esque portal? In any case, I would love to bounce some ideas around -- Great site by the way! |
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I just read through the blog again -- I most certainly think we should partner up on this -- I'm new to your site, but this is the type of circumstance and community I've been hoping to stumble upon - in any case this is a good opportunity to leverage my site's infrastructure and mission - let me know what you think - reliablesource.org is still very new, so a lot of changes are possible. dennis |
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In my view, this is certainly a good idea, and I hope to see this in future. It will certainly make the process of developing a userscript and then taking feedbacks from users for improving the userscripts a much easier task. I would also like to be able to see some statistics if possible that would give general info about the installations being made for a my scripts. For example daily installations for my scripts etc...that would also be nice. |
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I think you should have a "Cool Script Of The Month". |
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Perhaps to help combat spam communities should 'fade' with disuse and lack of numerous participants.. possibly blackbox innards |
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